Can Toxic Leadership Practices Be Addressed in the Construction Industry?

In this episode of the Sparky Life podcast, host Lia Lamela interviews Shana Francesca, a life designer and CEO of Concinnate LLC, about her unique background making her an expert on transformative leadership. We discuss the impact of toxic leadership in the construction industry, with Shana advocating for intentional and ethical leadership practices. 

The construction industry, stands at a crossroads between outdated, toxic leadership practices and a future of ethical, intentional leadership. Shana Francesca's story and insights remind us that the path we choose can transform not only our workplaces but also the fabric of our society. It's time to build a better tomorrow.

Connect  with Our Guest Shana's Links:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/shana-francesca-36b79217
https://www.tiktok.com/@shanafrancesca?_t=8cLJ8Liict1&_r=1
https://www.concinnate.world/
Link to Workshops: https://www.concinnate.world/workshops

Connect with us: @sparkylifeoflia

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National Memorial to the Women Who Worked on the Home Front Foundation

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Congress approves Women Who Worked on the Home Front Memorial

Here's the link to donate.
https://marnie-kenney-sfg2.squarespace.com/checkout/donate?donatePageId=63d1d506217f9e44111ecfea

We support financial advancement for the skilled trades community.  You can reach out to Jennifer Markwell at Platinum Wealth email Jennifer@PlatinumWealth.net 

website www.PlatinumWealth.net

Music by https://www.purple-planet.com

Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00:00) - I was born into an abusive household and then raised inside of an evangelical Christian cult, and so every part of my life was classified by abuse, both public and private.

Speaker 2 (00:00:10) - Welcome to the Sparky Life podcast. I'm your host, Lia Lamela. Join me on this electrical journey where I highlight skilled trade tales and construction career opportunities with those I've met along the way. Thank you for joining for Trade Tales continued. Thank you so much for being here with me. I am so happy to have you on the Sparky life.

Speaker 1 (00:00:38) - Thanks for having me, I really am. I was really excited about having this conversation.

Speaker 2 (00:00:43) - Today's guest on The Sparky Life, Shana Francesca, is founder and CEO of Concinnate LLC. She's a life designer, keynote speaker, and writer. Shana joins us to discuss leadership in the construction community. She shares her unique background that has given her the foundation to help guide people and companies into transformative leadership. Now, I know I've spoken about this topic before transformative leadership, and it's basically a fancy label for paying attention to others needs.

Speaker 2 (00:01:19) - Being motivational and creating parameters for individuals and team decision making. Transformative leadership has proven to be the most effective leadership strategy. Shauna's story is quite amazing. She was a guest on The Chris Bosh Show, where they go into great detail about her journey and background. If you'd like to check that out, I have it linked in the show notes below. So welcome with me, Shauna Francesca. I'm totally stoked because leadership in construction is something that really needs to change. The construction culture and its hierarchy really isn't a good breeding ground for great leadership. And I know with your background, you've got tons of amazing experience. Could you please share with us some of your background regarding this?

Speaker 1 (00:02:18) - Yeah. So, um, hi, I'm Shana Francesca, and I am a scholar of intentional and ethical leadership and living. So I talk about what is it to be an intentional and ethical leader and what is it to be an intentional and ethical human? What my background is, I went to school for interior design, and I started my own business in 2016 as an interior designer, and I had been working on the on the commercial side for ten, 12 years.

Speaker 1 (00:02:44) - When I went on my own, I was still doing the commercial side for my day job, but for my business I was working in residential, um, so I was working much more closely with contractors, and I got to see close up a lot of problems that could, I don't want to say, easily be solved, because the word easy feels dismissive, right? But they're easily identifiable problems that do have real finite solutions that I really wish that men were empowered to embrace.

Speaker 2 (00:03:17) - Yes. Wow. Okay.

Speaker 1 (00:03:22) - Like how I phrased that.

Speaker 2 (00:03:23) - Yeah. Yeah. I'm like so many good things in here I love it. Yeah. Okay. Prior to this, you have a specific background that has given you an extraordinary view on leadership in a way that others wouldn't have the ability to assess or say, yes. You mind sharing a little bit about that?

Speaker 1 (00:03:49) - Absolutely. I openly share this. Um, because I think it's really important. I think far more people see reflections of how they grew up and how I was raised.

Speaker 1 (00:03:57) - Then I think realize it, even though they may not have grown up in a cult. So background is I was born into an abusive household and then raised inside of an evangelical Christian cult, and so every part of my life was classified by abuse, both public and private, and people who didn't go to the church and the school and who weren't as involved as maybe didn't experience the cult and the way that I did. It's really when it starts to encompass your entire life that it really becomes a cult. Um, the people you're allowed to relate to, the people you're allowed to spend time with, the things you're allowed to interact with, including music and education and so on and so forth. To this day, I know nothing about evolution. We were only educated enough to pass standardized tests in certain subjects, and outside of that, we were taught what based on Christian values rather than on actual science and history. And so my entire life was encompassed by me being punished for daring to be myself, me being punished for speaking truth, to disrespect because I do not believe that a parent has a right to disrespect the autonomy of a child, or disrespect a child simply because that child was born into the world through their body.

Speaker 1 (00:05:09) - I do not believe that. I believe that all life deserves respect, and I believe that there is a respectful way to, um, to still honor your child's autonomy and not beat them into submission. Right? And not beat them down with your words and not speak down to them so that they are torn apart from the inside and on a daily basis, sometimes a minute by minute basis having to. Rebuild themselves and asking themselves why they're even alive to begin with. I mean, that's the world I existed inside of, um, and which I had to fight on a daily basis to preserve some spark of life inside of myself. And I think far too many people relate to that. Maybe not in such an extreme version, but I think far too many people relate with that, and we've really got to confront that as a society. But it's why I do the work that I do now, because as I deconstructed and as I healed from that abuse, I started to see that the way I grew up was reflected in so many aspects of our society.

Speaker 1 (00:06:05) - And I thought I was new to discovering this. Like, I thought everybody else knew this. I thought they saw what I saw, and it didn't take me very long to realize they didn't, in fact, see what I saw, that I was very sensitive to it because I had grown up in an extreme form of it, and the extreme form that I grew up in was really just an extrapolation of our societal values. It was just, you know, it was a natural conclusion to and an ever more extreme version of our societal values.

Speaker 2 (00:06:37) - Thank you for sharing that. I think it's so important to talk about these things, because you hit the nail on the head when you said that so many of us felt or feel that way. Yeah, they may not have been in the same situation, but a 100% has felt that feeling. And because you saw a lot of toxic forms of and I put this in quotes. Leadership. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (00:07:05) - It was authoritarianism more than leadership. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:07:08) - Yes. You have a powerful perspective that most don't because you've seen the extremes on both ends and middle ground, and then you've put your whole life into really developing change.

Speaker 1 (00:07:24) - Yeah. Having the difficult conversations around leadership. Yeah. And what's possible because I don't think most people in leadership positions want wanting like wake up every day and think I'm going to do harm. But I think it's the fact that I agree many leaders are not invested in the accountability required to actually be a leader. Yes.

Speaker 2 (00:07:45) - Okay. Now talking about taking responsibility, let's start right there. I was working on a site for a company that shall remain nameless. And everyone in my team, all the crew, we call this type of job a shit show. Okay? Everything I know, everything that could go wrong, went wrong. And it was, uh, what's the expression? Downhill. We were the ones being blamed.

Speaker 1 (00:08:20) - Downhill.

Speaker 2 (00:08:21) - Yes. Okay. And the higher ups sent out to the foreman a letter that said strong foreman presents. This is what they were telling their leaders on site to do. Number one, you must set the tone for the job gain. Boxes are to be opened before 6 a.m..

Speaker 2 (00:08:40) - Just so you're aware, we are supposed to start work at 6 a.m.. Gang box is like a tool cabinet. Some coffees gone by 6 a.m.. Number two, you must physically get in there and help. Help and show how to install conduit boxes. Get the guys started in the morning and set the goals monitor throughout the day. You need to know and should know if a guy is struggling. Put the crew member on the right task. Materials and tools must be provided. Review installation methods. Are your workers using the proper tools and are they using a ladder when they should be using a ladder? Um. Foreman responsibilities you have to accept responsibilities as a foreman, you are their boss, not their friend. You must conduct yourself to ensure the company's best interest is being looked out for. You must walk with a sense of purpose and have a sense of urgency. The crew needs to know you all business and you demand for them to be so. Two I'm sorry, I was.

Speaker 1 (00:09:56) - Gonna say like, is there is there a lot more because I have so many thoughts already.

Speaker 2 (00:10:00) - One last thing identify problems. Constantly checking progress. This is how you identify problems. If a guy is doing the same task, he should be improving. Set goals that are not easily attained.

Speaker 1 (00:10:18) - Oh boy.

Speaker 2 (00:10:19) - Move guys around until they find a good fit. Do they have their pouches on? That's like a tool belt. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (00:10:29) - Yeah. Okay.

Speaker 2 (00:10:31) - Teach praise, be upfront. Identify to them what they need to do is to improve. If you don't tell them how, they won't know. Do not tolerate anything that is a waste of man hours.

Speaker 1 (00:10:49) - All right, so let's just dive right in okay. Number one, companies are not entitled to time. They are not paying for. Yep. And human beings do not owe you any more time than they agreed to give you when they signed their employment contract. So you have no right to demand that they show up before 6 a.m.. As long as they are 6 a.m., they show up and they are engaging with work.

Speaker 2 (00:11:11) - That's that, that's that, that's that.

Speaker 1 (00:11:15) - And controlling people's intake of food and beverages is never a good sign. That's very cult like behavior actually. And so determining, you know, I could understand if people are, you know, are spending the first hour of the day grabbing a coffee, but typically grabbing a coffee takes, what, 3 to 5 minutes. Yes. And that's where people bond and they form relationship and they form community. And they're going to talk about the issues that they're having and they're going to problem solve together. So that's actually really vital time that they're actually working. Doesn't matter that don't have a tool in their hand. And actually performing something. Right. All of the things required for them to perform their work are in fact work. So if it is thought about their work or or talking, discussing, problem solving or creating relationships with their fellow workmen so that they can problem solve when things arise is absolutely necessary to their work to try to control that control relationships is cultivate behavior and very toxic. To set a foreman above their people and then simple set, you know, to to use the language to establish themselves as the boss, but then say they need to get in there and do the work.

Speaker 1 (00:12:25) - Those are contradictory concepts. You cannot have somebody who's willing to get in there and help their people, while always having to maintain authority over others. When they get in there to help, they're going to be mansplaining. They're going to be telling somebody who already knows how to do their job, how to do their job in a very detrimental way. Also, who determines what's the right tool?

Speaker 2 (00:12:52) - It's a great question. Great.

Speaker 1 (00:12:55) - Everyone should be given access to all the tools they need, but who determines what's the right tool? I think it should be the person with the expertise who's performing the job. And I don't hire people who I don't trust. So if you don't trust that your people are going to get the work done properly, then they shouldn't be working for you in the first place. Furthermore, you're asking them to perform their work with a sense of urgency. I have never in my life than on a construction site where I thought, you know what? These guys need a bigger sense of urgency because that's going to be safe.

Speaker 1 (00:13:26) - Yes, nothing safe happens with a sense of urgency. Also, are you paying them for that sense of urgency?

Speaker 2 (00:13:33) - Definitely not, because I'm going.

Speaker 1 (00:13:36) - To guess you're paying them as little as you can possibly get away with. You're giving them minimum yearly raises that don't even match inflation. Yes, I'm going to guess that.

Speaker 2 (00:13:45) - Most most companies, not all of them.

Speaker 1 (00:13:47) - But most of them I'm also I'm going to guess not once did I hear them really talk about the safety of the people. Maybe I missed it, but I didn't hear them really talk about the safety of the people providing necessary work I do necessary work training. I did hear them talk about helping somebody move around till they find a job that really fits them, and I think that's appropriate. I think that's a very good thing to do. And I think that it is a very human thing to not want to do the same thing all the time. So if somebody has multiple proficiencies or is interested in developing proficiency in something else, I think it's important to indulge that cross training employees only benefits everyone so that if somebody is out, then a construction job continued to move forward because other people have proficiencies to be able to move it forward.

Speaker 1 (00:14:34) - But we cannot be cross training in an effort to eliminate employees. Right. We cannot be doing that. Our aim has to be always like, if we're cross training, it's so that if there's if somebody needs support or help, they're getting it. Not so we can eliminate support and help and uses as few workers as possible. Right. You know, I think when it comes to this foremen, they're now in a precarious position because the company has now asked them to be micromanaging, to continually watch what everybody's doing. I think it is important to have a second eye on certain things, but on on tasks where guys have proven themselves, you do. You should not be looking over their shoulder if you've provided the correct amount of mentorship, and these guys have relationships with one another, they're going to be asking one another for help and support. And like, yo man, I need this blah blah blah. Like, can you throw me that? So on and so forth. If you have somebody who continually cuts corners, again, they shouldn't be working for you.

Speaker 1 (00:15:29) - If you have a whole bunch of people who work for you, who are continually cutting corners, I'm going to tell you it's probably because of multiple things. It's probably because, number one, you are actively undercutting wages. Number two, you are overburdening your people. And so they are feeling the need to cut corners in order to be able to fulfill a quota. Right. And so they are not being supported. They are not being valued. Their humanity is not being honored. They are being they're being treated like just another piece of machinery.

Speaker 2 (00:16:00) - Yes.

Speaker 1 (00:16:01) - And I think it is deeply important, especially in male dominated industries, that men be given the space and empowering themselves and one another to embrace their humanity. Because part of showing up as a masculine person in this, in a masculine in quotes, right? Like masculinity isn't real. It's a concept, ever changing concept. It's not real. Showing up as a masculine person in this world comes with the requirement you must dehumanize yourself. You must strip yourself of the ability to show up as a full human being, a fully emotional.

Speaker 1 (00:16:37) - A person who experiences all emotions, gets to process all of your emotions, gets to move those through your bodies, learns how to do those things. The only way you're allowed to show up is like angry. Mm. That's really the only acceptable emotion, um, in our society at large. And so it's a matter of recognizing that like your, your, in order to show up as the world requires a quote unquote man to show up, you have been stripped of your humanity as you dehumanize yourself, and you are dehumanized, like as you're fulfilling that role, you are dehumanizing yourself. You're being dehumanized. You're also then going to start dehumanizing others.

Speaker 2 (00:17:12) - Oh yeah. And this is how it perpetuates. This is.

Speaker 1 (00:17:14) - How it perpetuates. Exactly. And so there are podcasts, there are books. There are things that that I, you know, can I direct men to. There's a podcast called Man Enough.

Speaker 2 (00:17:24) - Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (00:17:25) - And then there is a book that one of the co-hosts or two of the co-host is written a book.

Speaker 1 (00:17:29) - One is the main host. He wrote the book man enough, and I forget his name. Um, Justin something. I forget his last name, but then one of the other co-hosts. So it's two men and a woman. Her name is Liz Plank, and Liz Plank wrote a book called For the Love of Men. So I recommend both of those books to men to kind of dive in and get started and to consider, um, the benefits to them of showing up as a full human being and how that will empower them to actually like, be human and be connected, not have to position themselves above others and and dominate one another. Because the minute you pit yourself against others, the minute you're setting yourself up above someone in a hierarchy, you can burn them. There is no connection in that. Because then you've decided that you aren't accountable to that person because they're beneath you. Without accountability, there is no relationship. I will die on that mountain. It's the foundation of my work. And when you have positioned yourself over someone and you are not accountable to them, there is no respect.

Speaker 1 (00:18:33) - Not really. That respect is conditional, right? There's no curiosity because you don't need to be. You're looking down on them. You have nothing to learn from them because you're above them. Right? So there's all of these different things that start to come into play that are necessary for relationship because curiosity, respect and accountability are necessary for a relationship. And so that in that memo, all of those things are devoid of that.

Speaker 2 (00:18:54) - I'm just popping in to let you know we have exciting things coming in 2024. If you like what you hear, please subscribe, follow, like, and share. Doing so really helps us reach more listeners like you. Now let's get back to the show.

Speaker 1 (00:19:14) - There's no hey, as a foreman, what isn't the first thing you do in the day? Ask your guys what in what ways they might need support because the ways they're going to answer might be shocking to you. Maybe they don't even feel comfortable to answer that. And that's a whole other question. Like a whole nother problem.

Speaker 1 (00:19:28) - Right?

Speaker 2 (00:19:28) - Right.

Speaker 1 (00:19:29) - But like, you've got to set up a culture where people feel safe to raise their hand and they're not going to be like, oh, you need help with that? You can't do that on your own. You know what I mean? All that shenanigans that comes in that that makes someone shamed out of asking for help. Right. So all of these things have to be addressed in that memo is just reinforcing really toxic behavior.

Speaker 2 (00:19:50) - Yes. 100%. Yeah. So when the guys got this, everyone was laughing. And if morale wasn't low before, it became worse. So what ended up happening is we had some poor soul drill a hole in a water line. We had like people were showing up and going through the motions. Yeah. And they were burnt out. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (00:20:17) - Not shocking, beat up.

Speaker 2 (00:20:19) - And just ready for the next thing. There were people there that wanted to be fired. They were waiting to be fired. They wanted off the job and. I'll never forget the higher ups.

Speaker 2 (00:20:33) - All I heard from them were. You just can't find good work these days. Oh, that's a terrible.

Speaker 1 (00:20:38) - Thing to say.

Speaker 2 (00:20:39) - Yeah. Nobody. Nobody wants to work anymore. Neither of those are true statements. Yeah. You know what I had to do when I was coming up? This is, you know, easy work. This is nothing. I don't believe.

Speaker 1 (00:20:53) - In the perpetuation of violence. So just because you experience it doesn't mean that someone else has to write.

Speaker 2 (00:20:59) - Thank you.

Speaker 1 (00:20:59) - That's a preposterous thing to say. You were abused, that others have to be abused.

Speaker 2 (00:21:04) - You don't know what that means to me to hear you say that. Because I can't tell you how many journeymen treat their apprentices like garbage based off of. Well, I got, you know, made me tough. It made me strong. Really, I don't think.

Speaker 1 (00:21:17) - I don't think you're okay. I'm pretty sure you're not okay.

Speaker 2 (00:21:19) - Yeah. I don't think you're strong either.

Speaker 1 (00:21:22) - And to. To pretend that whenever I hear someone in a leadership position say that they.

Speaker 1 (00:21:29) - No one wants to work anymore and they can't find any good work, and, you know, anymore, I'm like, so everyone in the world is the problem. 386 million people in this country are the problem and not you. I think the reality is that you are paying people, um, you have created a work environment that people literally can't survive with their humanity. They cannot make it through with their humanity still intact. Number one. Number two, you aren't paying them enough to give a crap. You're violating boundaries by requiring people to show up ahead of time to prep for the work that they have to do for you, which is prepping for something. Is work, correct?

Speaker 2 (00:22:10) - Yeah, 100%. Yes.

Speaker 1 (00:22:11) - All of these things that come into, you know, play again saying like it's just revealing whenever someone says no one works to work anymore and, you know, people expect too much and so on and so forth, I'm like, stop saying that, because all that does is reveal how toxic you are.

Speaker 1 (00:22:27) - And you're just waving a red flag for everyone to see. Please stop saying that and invest in understanding that 40% of our homeless population works a full time job, that 60% of people in the United States make less than $40,000 a year. And then, adjusted for inflation, minimum wage would be 24, almost $25 an hour. All right. Let's actually talk about the fact that your people should be able to afford to live within a 20, 20 to 30 minute radius of their place of employment if they have to show up in person. And if you aren't paying them enough to afford to live. And that is absolutely exploitation. There's all of these things that have to be considered. We have to honor people's humanity. We cannot expect our people to contribute to our companies thriving if we are not contributing to their thriving period.

Speaker 2 (00:23:09) - Within construction culture. Many of them just don't even have a clue where to start, right? Because all that's happened is whoever was in charge before taught the same thing to the next guy, to the next guy, to the next guy.

Speaker 2 (00:23:23) - And they just keep repeating, just like monkey see, monkey do calling someone like you in? Yeah. And I wish I didn't have to go in this direction, but sometimes I feel it's the only way to get them to at least want to open the door. Yeah. Financially speaking, what's worth it to them? Why do they care? Why should they care other than, I don't know, basic humanity.

Speaker 1 (00:23:50) - Losing an employee is a very expensive thing. Hiring a new employee and training a new employee is a very expensive thing. The loss of work, the training itself, so on and so forth. Those are those are hours lost, right? Those are hours that have to be invested into this new person getting up to speed, understanding the culture, so on and so forth. It's absolutely required that that you become a place where if you want your business to thrive, you want your business to grow. You're not going to do that with continual turnover. So it's really a matter of do you want to push pause on continual turnover and really have your people be invested, invested in helping your company to thrive by you being invested in their thriving? Or do you want your your company to continue limping along in a way that is toxic and going to eventually implode because you don't have a company? If you don't have people who are willing to work for you?

Speaker 2 (00:24:41) - That's right.

Speaker 2 (00:24:42) - So now you.

Speaker 1 (00:24:44) - Yeah, you.

Speaker 2 (00:24:45) - Have many programs and tools to help companies, to help people who are want to invest in their company and themselves. Yeah, creating more income, not just for the company, but for the people there and then perpetually just growing. Right. It's it's like one after the next. Can you please tell me about some of those tools?

Speaker 1 (00:25:11) - Yeah, absolutely. I have several workshops and I have, um, several ways of connecting with companies. So I've had especially for the construction industry, I don't know if we would specifically do this, but I'm throwing it out there. I've had companies who have had me come in and do essentially a book club, a really structured book club. So I assign a book and then like a week before we discuss it, I'm sending some questions and topics of discussion, and then everybody's invested in discussing, and everybody has a fixed amount of time to be able to contribute to the conversation. I also give workshops, and we can do those in like a 90 minute format, a half day interactive format.

Speaker 1 (00:25:48) - I also have group coaching that we can engage in. So there's a variety of ways. It's more a matter of like meeting with the company, talking about what their pain points are, and then let's figure out what the best solution is for you, even if we have to invent it. If I'm going to make it up. Very cool. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:26:08) - Creating, right.

Speaker 1 (00:26:09) - Yeah, yeah. We'll create whatever, you know. And all of it kind of hovers around. What is it to be an intentional and ethical leader and what does that mean? Um, and how do we how do we actually show up and do that in real life and really easy, actionable ways? Because if it's not easily actionable, it's never going to happen. But yeah, we can do that in a variety of ways. And I think, you know, sitting down and having that initial discussion with people is where we discover what's going to work best for them.

Speaker 2 (00:26:36) - Oh, man, I'm so excited. Yeah, I think that what you're doing is extremely important.

Speaker 2 (00:26:43) - I think that the benefit to the construction world will be astronomical. And yeah, the fact that guild trades and labor is literally the foundation of society. If you're going to invest in really creating an optimal environment for that to grow. Can you imagine like it's not just the person, it's not just the company. We're talking country. Yeah, advancement and economic success all the way around. So it's vital what you're doing. I love what you're doing. Thank you. And I will put all of your contact information in the show notes below.

Speaker 1 (00:27:23) - Yeah, thanks for having me. And thanks for facilitating these conversations because there's so much.

Speaker 4 (00:27:26) - Sorry.

Speaker 5 (00:27:28) - Thank you for joining us.

Speaker 2 (00:27:30) - If you felt a spark in today's.

Speaker 5 (00:27:32) - Episode, I invite you to write a review. I'd love to hear what lit you up, take what resonates with you, and if you'd like to hear more of the spark your life, please subscribe, like, follow and share. Until next time, create the sparks in your life.