Who Are the Mentors For The Next Generation?

In this episode of the Sparky Life podcast, host Lia Lamela talks with Cate, a second-year apprentice carpenter from British Columbia, about the challenges and experiences of women in the skilled trades. Cate discusses her transition from administrative work to carpentry, and the importance of self-confidence. They address the balance between strength and softness. 

Cate discloses how after leaving school, she had to learn a lot about the real world of construction.  Her goal is to achieve the red seal in carpentry and move into a mentorship role for other young women entering the trades.

Connect with us: @sparkylifeoflia
Connect with our guest Cate Links: https://www.instagram.com/carpenter_cate/

Sparky Life Supports:
National Memorial to the Women Who Worked on the Home Front Foundation

Here's Raya and a little about her memorial
Congress approves Women Who Worked on the Home Front Memorial

Here's the link to donate.
https://marnie-kenney-sfg2.squarespace.com/checkout/donate?donatePageId=63d1d506217f9e44111ecfea

Apply for Skilled Trades the Mike Rowe Scholarship
https://www.mikeroweworks.org/scholarship/

Financial Advising for the skilled trades: email Jennifer@PlatinumWealth.net
websitewww.PlatinumWealth.net

If you liked this episode you might enjoy: The Power of Humor: An Electrician's Journey Overcoming Sexism, Racism, and Homophobia in the Trades, with Lindsay Kearns. https://open.spotify.com/episode/4kKu5VsTKhNR6EVCcODpV3?si=kBHb8mZ3Rcu6KOrpq1ViXg

Music by https://www.purple-planet.com

Transcript

Copy Transcript Copied

Cate (00:00:00) - I ended up shooting my finger with the nail gun. It just. It didn't go in. It just, like, seemed like getting right on my finger. And I was like, oh, you know, it just more of a scared reaction than, like, hurt. But I was just like, freaked out, like, ah. And, uh, had my little freak out, put a bandaid on it, went back to it. Not like ten minutes later I'm hammering to try and get something flush, right. And the same finger that I had just shot. I hammered this piece of wood right down in the wood. Just end it. Ah. I was like, so I wasn't proud of my reaction. After that one. I had a huge freakout through my hard hat off my tool belt off, went into my car, drove off and just was like, fuck it, and had a big cry. And but I came back to site and I finished that wall and stood it up and left some blood.

Lia (00:01:06) - Welcome to the Sparky Life podcast. I'm your host, Lia Lamela, and here I share skilled trades conversations with those I've met along the way. Originally, when I started The Sparky Life, I wanted to share the unseen heroes, the trade tales that many people aren't even privy to. And I wanted to create a safe space for women in the skilled trades. I also wanted to debunk some myths regarding the skilled trades, and open people's eyes to all of the opportunities the skilled trades has to offer. Personally, my whole life changed when I started a career in the skilled trades and I learned it's not just a career path, it holds life lessons and keys to success. But now, Sparky life has evolved much like a construction site. You never know what you're going to get with a Sparky live episode, but somehow, in the end, it all comes together, building a better understanding of the skilled trades opportunities. Join me and the Sparky Life guests every Thursday, where we are here to help you create the sparks in your life.

Lia (00:02:27) - Today I have a second year apprentice. Join me. She comes from British Columbia, Canada. Yes, I have a lot of friends in Canada. Happened to be a lover of Canada. After a decade of experience in administrative work after Covid hit and she had her daughter, she made this career shift into carpentry. And today we're going to discuss why she decided to do this. How did it all come about? And. Was it worth it? So welcome with me. Are carpenter in training cat? Thank you so much for joining us on Sparky Live. It's a pleasure to have you here with us. Now, I was reading a little bit about your background that you're kind enough to send over to me. You said that you are in your second year of apprenticeship with carpentry, and you happen to be. Is it going through the BBWITT wit? Is that it?

Cate (00:03:32) - Well, they were the people that kind of jumpstarted it. So their role in my kind of career development was just to get me started.

Cate (00:03:41) - They were able to fund my tuition and my PPE, all my books for school and everything. So all I had to do was just choose what I wanted to do. And they were like, yep, go do it.

Lia (00:03:50) - So they're an amazing organization. I happen to know them well. Lindsay Kerns, do you know her?

Cate (00:03:57) - No, I don't.

Lia (00:03:59) - She's a part of the she's a part of that program. She was actually in my episode, The Power of Human Connection overcoming Racism and Homophobia. Okay.

Cate (00:04:09) - She is a.

Lia (00:04:10) - Part of that organization, so I happen to know it well. And it's an amazing and amazing organization in Canada. So yeah.

Cate (00:04:18) - They're really awesome.

Lia (00:04:19) - I'm a big fan. Yeah. So a little bit about your background. You have a decade of experience in administrative work and then Covid hit and you had your beautiful daughter and then decided to make this career shift. Why?

Cate (00:04:35) - Just because like Covid hit, I was working as a like personal assistant to one of the managers at like a bigger construction landscaping company when Covid hit and they just did a lot of downsizing, I lost my job and I was like, what am I going to do? Right? Like, I was kind of at this point where I was like.

Cate (00:04:56) - I'm not making anywhere in this kind of field in this career with administration. I'm just kind of doing like the same job but at different offices over and over. And I never really like was able to grow and I never really enjoyed the work. It's just like, I've got ADHD. I don't want to be sitting at a desk for eight hours in a fluorescent like room, like freaking out.

Lia (00:05:22) - So yes. Yes.

Cate (00:05:23) - So just like I had to do, like a lot of, like really like contemplating like, what kind of person am I now that I'm a new mom, right? You go through a lot of identity shift when you become a mother. And I was trying to find that. And, um, my job really wasn't encouraging any kind of growth for me. So I was like, I need something different. I don't know what, but it's going to be something different. I looked into like possibly becoming an early childhood educator. I was even like registered for school for that and was going to start.

Cate (00:05:56) - But was like, don't, don't know if this is like my path. I love children, but this doesn't really seem like it fits me. And I even had some had a point where I was looking into becoming a registered massage therapist and that would have been really nice, a nice career path as well. But it still wasn't like I'm a very like, bold, kind of like high energy sort of person. So it's like what is going to be for me? And one day it just came to me. I was like, fuck it, it's going to be trade school. I don't know why. I don't know where it came from, but I was like, it's going to be a trade. I think that'd be perfect for.

Lia (00:06:33) - What you just said about upward mobility being important to you as a massage therapist. There is no upward mobility. The highest you go is opening up your own massage shop. But that's it. Yeah.

Cate (00:06:47) - Exactly. Yeah. And I was like, oh, that would be nice.

Cate (00:06:50) - I could like rent my own little room and stuff and have like a little space that's mine. But it was kind of like in that phase of my life or as very like following the kind of granola, crunchy sort of trend going on and trying to fit into that kind of fit into a lot of different things. That just wasn't me. So when I got the idea of trade school, I was like, okay, let's figure this out. What do I want to do? Right? Like BC Witt said that they would fund me for whatever I wanted. So now I needed to figure out what did I want to do? Mhm. And at first I considered welding. My main choices for that was like, well I want to like I don't want to be outside in the cold in the winter.

Lia (00:07:37) - I can't blame you girl. It's not fun. I don't blame you at all. It is not a good time.

Cate (00:07:45) - It is like, and here I am outside. Yeah, right. So.

Cate (00:07:51) - Right. I was like, thinking. And I had known somebody from my past who was a red steel welder, and I was like, maybe I could get mentorship from him, but that this is going to go a little bit, kind of a bit of a darker place here. But thinking of that person in my life who was a welder.

Lia (00:08:11) - Yes.

Cate (00:08:12) - Remembering who he was and stuff, it brought up memories that I had overlooked of just very inappropriate kind of abusive situations I had with him. Um, and that realization just tore apart my whole life.

Lia (00:08:28) - Was that a friendship based relationship? Was it a romantic based relationship?

Cate (00:08:35) - I don't want to get into too many details just for their privacy, but I was a young person, 14, and they were an adult and in a leadership role, so I had kind of had a connection with him when I was a teenager and not really realizing what kind of relationship this was because I was so young, and then reevaluating it as adult and as a mother, I was like, oh my God, what did I go through here? Right? So I had to like really process that, like before even entering school, like what happened and, and everything.

Cate (00:09:13) - And that just kind of put me on this path where I was like, okay, I don't know what I'm going to do here. Like, I'm having this problem with a man I know from my past who's a trades person, and now I'm feeling very like insecure about myself. And I don't know what I'm going to do. Like, do I still want to go forward with this? And in time I was able to kind of like process and heal from that and face it for the first time. And that gave me like a lot of confidence in myself to say, like, yes, I can belong anywhere I choose to. So that was gave me a lot of fire to just start whatever program I started with as much as I could, and I was scrolling through. Talk. And I saw just some lady who worked in a wood shop and she said the caption was, I just love the smell of wood saw like sawdust. And yes, me too. I love the smell of sawdust.

Cate (00:10:09) - I'm gonna be a carpenter. Oh, there you go.

Lia (00:10:12) - There you go.

Cate (00:10:14) - Yeah. So I was like, that's it, I'm going to be a carpenter. And the school I attended had a foundation program where you can get year one and two, and it was like an eight month program, 7 or 8 months. So yeah, I did that. And it was it was a really awesome experience for me. It was so fun. It was like the first time I was able to feel like I got this. I'm building my hands on like I can do the ride, you know, getting all that testosterone in me, like, yeah. And, uh, yeah, it was really awesome. Really awesome experience. And I left that course and went into the real world. And, uh, I had to learn a lot more about the industry and how it works and how to kind of manage yourself and survive in it, because it is a it's a brutal world that, uh, I don't regret coming into, but I wish I was a little bit, a little bit more prepared.

Lia (00:11:08) - So let's let's dive into this a little bit. So you were set up for success in the program that you were in. Did you feel confidence and empowerment by building with your hands by creating something?

Cate (00:11:24) - Yeah, I did the biggest thing, like the biggest project I overcame in school was just built this one wall. It was only like a nine foot wall, very basic. I don't even think there's windows in it, but I was having such a hard time framing this wall.

Lia (00:11:38) - Framing is very, very difficult. And it is. Let me give everyone like a little bit of a background on framing, because remember, we're in this world. Not everybody is in this world. So yeah, framing is about being meticulously precise. I'm talking 1/16. This is why I did not become a carpenter. Yeah, because I struggled with this aspect. I'm pretty precise. I, you know, I like my things level and plumb. However, when we're talking about a 1/16 here, we're talking robotic like measurements.

Lia (00:12:19) - Okay.

Cate (00:12:20) - Yeah. And it's a lot of really like you gotta learn a lot of, like, small muscle movements to even get those cuts, like perfectly straight. Right. Like, yeah.

Lia (00:12:29) - It's.

Cate (00:12:29) - A lot to practice and learn and get good at. Like, you're not going to be good at just ripping with the skill saw. Like right off the bat. That is something to learn.

Lia (00:12:39) - Yes, definitely.

Cate (00:12:41) - Yeah. Like framing is very precise, very technical. And this one wall I was framing in my class, I was having such a hard time with it, and it was the first one I was also doing alone. Usually I had like one of my other classmates with me helping me and whatever, but it was the first one I was doing alone and I ended up shooting my finger with the nail gun. It just it didn't go in. It just like skimmed, just like skimmed right on my finger. And I was like, oh, you know, it just more of a scared reaction than like, hurt.

Cate (00:13:18) - But I was just like, freaked out, like, ah. And, uh, had my little freak out, put a bandaid on it, went back to it. Not like ten minutes later I'm hammering to try and get something flush, right. And the same finger that I had just shot. I hammered this piece of wood right down in the wood, just skinned it. Ah. I was like, so I wasn't proud of my reaction. After that one. I had a huge freakout through my hard hat off my tool belt off, went into my car, drove off, and just. I was like, fuck it and had a big cry. And but I came back to site and I finished that wall and stood it up and left some blood, you know, on the plate for tears.

Lia (00:14:03) - Yeah.

Cate (00:14:04) - But I think about that one all the time, like just this simple little wall. And I've built so much more complex things since then. But that little one was such a challenge for me and I overcame it, I did it.

Lia (00:14:18) - I want to go back to what you said about then stepping into the real world quotes, right? So to speak, of actually being a carpenter. Yeah. And how you didn't feel prepared. Tell me, in what ways were you not prepared? Well, when.

Cate (00:14:34) - You switch from more of a white collar industry to a blue collar, the way you interact with people and communicate is going to be a lot different. White collar. We we would have to be like very you know, everything was very like professional, you know, like politically.

Lia (00:14:51) - Correct.

Cate (00:14:51) - Politically correct. Right. Like. Yeah. And then you get on site talking to the guy. Is like manners. Things that come out of my mouth that I'm like really shocked out of, like, oh man.

Lia (00:15:02) - It's a little more loosey goosey.

Cate (00:15:04) - Yeah. But with that, you know, you you start kind of like I started breaking down a lot of like my learned kind of barriers from working in, in a different kind of field.

Cate (00:15:16) - And you get, you know, more friendly and close with these guys. And then you're in this situation where you're like, what's this man's intention? Right. So that's been the biggest thing I've been dealing with is just trying to navigate professional but positive relationships at work with men and, you know, having healthy boundaries and stuff like that because it's cutthroat. You can be doing fine one day and then the next day is is a lot different. And you want to have these people on your crew there for, you know, support. But, um, a lot of the time you have to realize that, you know, the work is up to you, and all of this is just up to you. You got to get done what you need to get done. And it doesn't matter what's going on at home, it doesn't matter what's going on that day. It's just like the work needs to get done. And my personal amount of work ethic and like just the amount of effort I had to put into just an everyday job was a big shift for me.

Cate (00:16:21) - Very tired, very just emotionally taxing, physically taxing. And it just confusing. Just confusing to just be in this new world and try and navigate myself and just do my job right. It's a lot more than showing up to work every day. I feel like when you're working on a construction site, it's you're showing up and you got to work with all these people and you've got to figure out all these technical things. And it's it's a lot. It's a lot to get used to instead of just having your one thing you do at your desk, and you're only in charge of that. Right? So yeah, I hope that was a little clear. I think I trailed off a little bit there, but.

Lia (00:16:59) - No, no, I totally get it. I am on the same page as you. I understand what you're talking about regarding being in a space where you're the only female. It's very isolating. Yeah, and it is emotionally exhausting. And this is something that the men don't experience that I feel like the women do.

Lia (00:17:23) - So not only are we physically exhausted because the amount of physical work it takes, but mentally and emotionally because we are navigating the play between, you know, I want to be a part of the crew. I want to be seen as a teammate. I want the camaraderie, I want the mentorship and the support. But you need to be keenly aware that you're female and that a lot of the men's initial instinct or reaction, especially to a beautiful woman you're gorgeous, is going to be wanting to push things in an intimate direction, and it's very difficult to navigate. Am I being too friendly? Am I not being friendly enough? Am I being cold? I want to be seen as a sister. How can I do that without breaking my own barriers? Right? Because some of that. Look, I'm from Jersey, but yeah, I have a dirty sense of humor, dark sense of humor. Uh, however, everybody's got their line, right. Everybody's got their. This is what I'm comfortable with.

Lia (00:18:34) - This is what I'm not comfortable with and how you navigate expressing that without segregating yourself.

Cate (00:18:41) - Exactly. Yeah.

Lia (00:18:42) - What was very difficult for me and heartbreaking in the beginning was a lot of the time I thought, oh my gosh, this journeyman, he's going to mentor me. He's really proud. He sees the work, he sees my work ethic. They're complimenting me, they're showing me. And then slowly but surely what would creep in is them trying to be intimate in some way or push the envelope of, oh, let me take you out for a steak dinner. And then as soon as you put up that barrier, like I had to be careful on how I phrased things, I learned to say things like, oh, I'm so flattered, but I don't date my own kind. I don't shit where I eat. Yeah, you know, things like that. And most of the time I would say more often than not they would take it well. They understood. I don't ever want to make a man feel uncomfortable for asking, especially if they do it in a gentlemanly like fashion.

Lia (00:19:44) - However, I do wish that they would acknowledge it's a poor choice to try to pursue something romantically with someone you work with.

Cate (00:19:53) - Yeah, yeah, it is I.

Lia (00:19:55) - I know many people in this world and I'm not judging me, their significant others at work, but for me, I have never dated or been intimate with someone that I've worked with, and I like to keep it that way because it creates clean boundaries. And the women that I've spoken to that has dated within their industry or, and the, the ones that were successful and the ones that weren't like some of them actually went on to marry these men and they're still with them. Yeah. No matter what created a negative consequence. So I'm going to give you two examples. The first example is they were just dating one of the crew members. It didn't, you know, work out. And then she was immediately ostracized. And then it was like blood in the water. Oh he got her. So then the every guy was like asking her out because oh she said yes.

Lia (00:20:50) - So that means the doors are open. So she's open to dating someone she works with. That's one aspect of it. The other aspect is she actually was a wastewater operator and she was working with her husband now. Now her husband, they were working together. He was the muscles, she was the brains. And they were this amazing team. They were killing it. Right. And when they decided to take it serious and actually start talking about marriage, they realized it was really inappropriate to be working together. So he removed himself from that company and went to go work with another company, and it negatively affect her in this way. So management at the time was furious with her because they figured we're losing our best guy because they've created this, you know, romantic relationship. Then they come to find out, oh, wait a minute, she's the one that knew how to fucking do this. Like she was the brains and he was actually the brawn. But because of, you know, some prejudices that occur when we look at females and males in work environments, they were convinced that he was the one getting it done, that she was riding his coattails.

Lia (00:22:04) - And they were shocked to find out that that wasn't the case at all. If anything, he was riding her coattails. So they were like, oh, we actually got the better of the two. But still, it created that situation where for a while, significant time, she wasn't being seen as a leader. She wasn't being seen for her value because that was clouding it, that was creating this judgment. Yeah.

Cate (00:22:32) - Living in a big shadow, pretty much.

Lia (00:22:35) - Right. So when you're on site and a guy is mentoring you or trying to teach you something, I'm sure you have the same types of feelings I have. You're excited. You're like, oh my God, big brother, here we go. This is great. But at the same time super anxious that, okay, I got to make sure I don't come across as though I'm flirting. I'm too friendly. Be like, how can I keep this in a healthy place?

Cate (00:23:00) - Yeah, and it feels like a lot of that onus on you as the female.

Cate (00:23:05) - Right. And yes, it's exhausting to keep that up. It feels like a really large barrier to receiving a full kind of like mentorship experience, because I'm dealing with a situation right now where somebody who was mentoring me, it kind of went that way, and I feel very betrayed. I feel like.

Lia (00:23:30) - Yes.

Cate (00:23:31) - Why did you decide to pursue this? The whole thing feels cheap. And and then.

Lia (00:23:37) - You're like, did you ever think I was a quality coworker? Did you ever really appreciate my work? Or was this always just to try to engage in something romantic?

Cate (00:23:49) - Yeah, exactly. And it really makes you question like, you know, all those things you were proud of before, right? Like, you know, and I think that's something to say about a lot of women coming into the, into the industry is I think a lot of us,  we have we all have these different backgrounds when it comes to like, men in our lives and how we've been able to kind of navigate our lives with different men.

Cate (00:24:17) - And when we come into the trades, we really want to succeed and we want to please our mentors. Yeah. And sometimes some of those past issues get really tangled into what we're doing now and how we feel about now. So when we get a lot of that praise from these men that we really respect and we're like, yeah, we're kicking ass, we're doing it. We're, you know, we're making the the journeyman proud. And it feels really good. And but you have to find you have to learn to find that pride and you know, that feel good in yourself. Because if you're trying to get it from. Your mentors and your your journeymen and the other people on your crew. They're only looking out for themselves, and that's what you should be doing as well. Like looking out for yourself and making sure you're protected from feeling things that like make you feel cheap and worthless. You know, like, this is hard work. We all we put a lot of work into what we do and we should all feel proud about it no matter what anybody else thinks, because they're trying to have some kind of little thing on the side with you or whatever, right? Like you gotta learn to accept, you know, what you can get from these men and these people on the crew, but find your own way to stand up tall, I guess I would say is just don't put too much into these, these men about how you feel.

Cate (00:25:38) - They're just, you know.

Lia (00:25:40) - Yeah, I do know when I first started my career in the skilled trades, the first mentor I had, he ended up trying to pursue something romantically. And we're talking about this man was in his late 50s, not only was it inappropriate because he was in a power position, but he was like three decades older than me, and I was heartbroken. I was really upset because here I am thinking, you really care about my work. You see what a hard worker I am, how dedicated I am. But really it was all just a facade to see if you could get in my pants.

Cate (00:26:17) - Yeah, yeah.

Lia (00:26:18) - It was particularly went from, you know, trying to mentor me to a sexual harassment situation where he was basically like, oh, I've mentored you. Everything I've done for you, you owe me.

Cate (00:26:32) - It's like, oh no, it.

Lia (00:26:34) - Is a skill for me.

Cate (00:26:37) - Yeah.

Lia (00:26:39) - So that was very upsetting. And then the second journeyman that I was under, he is an incredible electrician.

Lia (00:26:49) - I mean, masterful broken human being but incredible electrician again. Same situation. Now he there was no sexual harassment. He understood that I was only there to be a coworker and only saw him as a coworker and would not cross those lines. But again, it was crushing because here I am in a situation thinking I'm a part of the team. I'm accepted. I'm doing a great job, I'm being seen for my value, and it turns into wanting to try to date me. Now. After that happened, what felt like constantly right? I felt like it was way too often than what it should be. I realized exactly what you said. I know I'm good, I know I fucking rock, I know that I'm ten times better. And a lot of these guys have been doing it for a decade, and I just was like, brand new to this. And it's because I cared more. I would work, I would come home and study my craft and then I would work overtime. So I just immersed myself in it, and it didn't matter anymore about making my journeyman proud.

Lia (00:28:03) - It was about making me proud. And I started to just yeah, with myself. Right now, I will say today my mentor, my boss finally is a real mentor. He acts appropriately. He's professional. He's like a Rain Man in my industry. The guy's a happily married man with children, you know, and he really wants to see me succeed. He's told me, I want you to be my right hand man. And that is an amazing feeling. But what you said is most important. It had to first originate from within and not be concerned about how everyone else was looking at my work.

Cate (00:28:47) - Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Because if you're going to be following around, you know, your mentors to try and like get approval and, you know, seek that all the time, you're always going to end up crushed. Right. And how are you supposed to move on from your mentors when you don't feel you know, the confidence in yourself or the the pride in yourself to be able to take those next steps, right.

Cate (00:29:13) - So learning to be able to have that wholeness and confidence in yourself, to continue practicing your trade, getting better at your trade, that's a special skill that I think women especially are very good at. Yes, we take very seriously what we're learning. We take very seriously what we're trying to achieve. And the difference from what I see, generally, not all the time between women and men on site is the men are just there to do their job, make their money, get out. Right. The women we're really trying to, like, get this right, figure out how to perfect it, fine tune it and then make something. You know that that can be like like for me, my trade, learning, my trade is to just be able to have the confidence, skills and experience to be able to mentor and pass it on to other people who need it. So that's what keeps me going with it through the hard days. And a lot of the younger men or the people who aren't really like they feel really lost in the in the field or in the trades.

Cate (00:30:17) - It's just a job to them, just like administration was just a job to me ten years ago, right? Yes, definitely more like a career path. Like, you know, something I'm doing with my life. Not just spending my time doing right.

Lia (00:30:31) - There's just so much upward mobility now for any woman entering into this field. What advice do you wish you had when you entered that you would tell them now that you would share with them now.

Cate (00:30:46) - Nowhere you start is going to be forever.

Lia (00:30:52) - No restart is going to be forever. Please dive into this. What do we mean?

Cate (00:30:59) - I started when I got out of school. I started at a very like a larger construction company with like, you know, the accountants in the air and everything. And then everyone, all of us out in the field. And it was very disconnected. I was having a hard time finding a superintendent I could work with that would actually want to teach me.

Cate (00:31:20) - Um.

Cate (00:31:21) - And it was also a very like it was a bad time of year two because it was the winter and I was there wasn't very many jobs out right then.

Cate (00:31:29) - And so I was kind of being bounced around and feeling, you know, as excited to get out of school. I was all gung ho to start building, doing things. And now I'm on this like little like with a guy, painting a trailer, painting the interior of a trailer. That was my first job, and I was like, this isn't what I expected it to be. And I felt what I think a lot of people, you know, male and female, feel when they're starting out is they want to be able to get their hands right in and do the stuff like learn, do all this stuff, and it takes time to get there. It takes time to even just be, you know, somewhere where you're just at the bottom, right. You got to figure out where it it takes a lot of time to find your place. So I worked at that first company for about three months. It didn't work out. I worked at another company that was very similar. It was a little better, had a little bit more work, but I was mainly doing more just labouring, cleaning.

Cate (00:32:29) - And I'm like, I want to do like the building. I don't want.

Cate (00:32:32) - To be alone. I want to do my job.

Cate (00:32:36) - And it caused me like to feel so down and like, oh, this isn't what I expected it to be. This isn't what I wanted, but I kept at it. I left that job, did a bit of siding with my brother in law. Um, in between finding my current employer and my current employer is just about a guy and his company. It's just him, his truck and his tool. Yes. And I think, you know, if I was really scared at first to work with somebody like that because I thought I had this, like thing in my head that, like, these trades guys, you know, they're going to be like, no, no, no, no. And I got to be able to have like some kind of like structured company to kind of like keep my back. But I found that those companies are more toxic than just, you know, the guys who are builders.

Cate (00:33:30) - So, um, my current employer, I found him and started working for him, and we were building residential houses at first, and it was really chill and I really loved it. He taught me a lot, and the person that he was, his lead hand, it was just him and his lead hand, and that guy was a total jerk, just had a really bad attitude, couldn't get anybody to work with him because he was just so abrasive. And he ended up letting that guy go, and it was just me and my boss for a whole summer. And now we've built this crew and he's kind of changed direction of his company, where we're building more larger kind of apartments, buildings and larger projects. And I'm kind of acting as as his right hand now. And we've built this kind of like, really awesome, trusting relationship just through me being there and sticking it out. And if you're entering the trades and you and you're or you're at a job and you feel like I'm not being given the opportunities I want, or I'm not feeling like I'm a person on this team, I'm just a number.

Cate (00:34:42) - I would say, try searching somebody who find somebody who works with you, somebody who doesn't just run the company from a desk or whatever, somebody who's in there with you. Work and. Doing this, shoveling the snow out of the units with you and like, you know, doing the work with you because those people are seeing you and see how hard you work. And those people are going to give you the opportunities a lot faster than trying to work your way through this kind of ladder. Different people and departments in a company. So that was my experience coming out, coming out of school. And, um, that's something I would give advice to anybody saying like, oh, I'm at this place and I don't know, it's not what I felt like it would be or it's not what I thought it would be. Just, you know, there's a lot of different kind of ways people run their companies, especially in construction, and you'll be able to find somebody eventually that, like you said, to like your your mentor, your person you're working for is somebody, finally somebody.

Cate (00:35:44) - This is somebody who knows what they're doing. Know treats me like I'm a professional and is giving me what I need instead of like, you're floating around on their whim, right?

Lia (00:35:54) - So yes.

Cate (00:35:57) - Stick it out every day. Just show up, stick it out, and you never know where it's going to lead you.

Lia (00:36:02) - That's great. That's great. Where you start is not where you're going to finish.

Cate (00:36:08) - That's only not. It's a.

Cate (00:36:10) - Journey. It's a journey and it has an end line. And you'll get there eventually if you stick it out.

Lia (00:36:15) - I love that, I love that I always like to ask, what tool is in your tool belt? What's the number one thing that you carry with you that's help you accomplish everything that you have thus far?

Cate (00:36:30) - I would say my hammer. Yeah. The classic, you know Carpenter. Every carpenter's got one.

Cate (00:36:37) - Hammer.

Cate (00:36:37) - Right? You use it for everything.

Lia (00:36:47) - Like, what is.

Cate (00:36:48) - The number you.

Cate (00:36:50) - Used to beat out all your problems? Yeah.

Cate (00:36:54) - There you go.

Cate (00:36:56) - You gotta keep that in. God, if you want. You're gonna have a lot of anger and a lot of issues coming in to the trades world. It's just gonna happen, and you're gonna have to work through that somehow. So you know what? Find a way.

Cate (00:37:11) - Find something.

Cate (00:37:12) - What I do to kind of get rid of all my, you know, angst and everything that comes along with just being in the trades and being so pumped up all the time. Go to the gym, better yourself, find other ways, other outlets to take care of yourself because no one's going to take care of you out there on the site or in, you know, just the world in general. You got to take care of yourself. So find find what you need. Find what does that for you, and find another outlet outside of your job that makes you makes you happy.

Lia (00:37:45) - I love that. So other jobs you haven't felt as much about aches as you've had felt working in the skilled trades.

Cate (00:37:58) - Like what were other jobs like that did?

Lia (00:38:01) - Did you? I'm asking because you said specifically going into the skilled trades, you're gonna have a lot of anger. Is that because of the environment you feel? Is that have you felt that way about other jobs? Is it just the skilled trades that you felt that.

Cate (00:38:17) - I felt that.

Cate (00:38:18) - Like I felt that in my administrative jobs, like, you know, the frustration about work and, you know, whatever, whatever's going on. Yes. But. Because carpentry is my life now, right? Like I put a lot of. Pressure on myself to succeed. And I think that's, you know, not a bad thing. It can definitely become unhealthy. Right. But, you know, women especially, we all put a lot of pressure on ourselves to do well and to, you know, do a good job and. When you're in. For me, my experience being in the field is. Everyone's looking at your work. You know, everyone's judging your work.

Cate (00:39:01) - Everyone knows who's done what, right? Yes or what?

Cate (00:39:05) - Yes, definitely.

Cate (00:39:08) - You do get like, like beat down at the end of the day and. You feel like I'm just not getting this right and just a certain technique or this certain thing that I always mess up and like, I can't, you know, remember what to do in this situation or whatever, but something it's like a cliche thing I always see on TikTok all the time. And those little motivational things is it's progress over perfection. Always just do a little better than you did the last day, right? Find that little bit you can just improve each time. And that is what's gotten me to kind of. Chill out about, you know, not being at the skill set. I want I want to be at that time and just being able to identify, okay, this is something in my work that, you know, needs a little bit more finessing and. I can deal with that little thing.

Cate (00:39:58) - And then once I get that, I can go and deal with the next little thing, and it gets really exhausting and it gets exhausting to navigate all these changes, all these things, all this hard work. And at the end of the day, you come home, you're still in work mode, and you're you come home to your family and your kids and you're like, still like a gruff carpenter, a gruff tradesman. And you got to, like, soften a little bit. You gotta learn to like, re soften yourself because we harden ourselves so much as women in the field and finding that balance of softness and strength. Yeah. It's doable. We can do it.

Lia (00:40:33) - I love that that's great advice. That's absolutely perfect. And. I can resonate with wanting to be as good as some of these guys. That's got three decades of experience. So I think it's also important to keep in mind, you know, don't compare yourself to the journeymen who've been doing this for three decades. You can't be experienced.

Lia (00:40:59) - And they started exactly where you are right now.

Cate (00:41:05) - Yeah, I see the little 18 year old greenies on that. Come in.

Cate (00:41:09) - Yeah, I watch.

Cate (00:41:11) - The like. Oh boy.

Cate (00:41:14) - You'll get there. Exactly, exactly.

Lia (00:41:17) - I think the key is to have empathy, to remember where you started when you first started, and to do what the skilled trades was originally known for, which is apprenticeship and mentoring. I love that your goal is to pass down your knowledge to the next person in line. I think that is beautiful and.

Cate (00:41:39) - Well, it's all about.

Lia (00:41:41) - Yes.

Cate (00:41:42) - Yes.

Cate (00:41:44) - I just want to say like one more thing that's just on my mind. That's really something I wanted to get out is when we're women in the trades, we don't have to be the same as the men. Yes, there's a reason why we're needed here. And we have other strengths and skills. And the industry is unbalanced. And that's why, you know, we need more of us here because we have things to offer.

Cate (00:42:06) - So if anyone's feeling like I can't carry heavy things or I don't know what I'm doing, or I don't think I could be like a man in a, you know, you do have to have a certain kind of personality and a thick skin to be successful, but you can get there and you don't need to be the same. As, you know, the 60 year old men doing it. I've been doing it since they were like 12.

Cate (00:42:27) - Yeah, I had no other choice.

Lia (00:42:30) - Yes, 100%, I love that, I love that. That's a great message. Thank you so much for doing this and coming on the Sparky life.

Cate (00:42:39) - It was so nice. And thank you for what you do getting, you know, giving women like us a platform. I said this to Lex when I was on smoko. I was just like, thank you for doing this, for giving us voices and giving us a place to just say like, hey, we're here. This is what we do. And allowing other women to see and understand too.

Cate (00:43:00) - So thank you.

Cate (00:43:01) - Well, Alexis.

Lia (00:43:02) - Armstrong is a good friend of mine and I love her podcast, The Smoko Podcast. Alexis Armstrong and Lindsay Reynolds is going to be joining me on live panel. We're actually doing a live show once a month, so I hope you'll come and participate.

Cate (00:43:19) - Yeah, yeah, I'll.

Cate (00:43:22) - Take a look out for that other interview you did with Lindsay as well, because that sounds like something just so wonderful to be back with connection and everything. So yeah.

Lia (00:43:31) - Of course. Absolutely, absolutely.

Lia (00:43:35) - Thank you for joining us.

Lia (00:43:36) - If you felt a Spark in today's episode, I invite you to write a review. I'd love to hear what lit you up. Take what resonates with you, and if you'd like to hear more of the spark your life, please subscribe, like, follow and share. Until next time, create the sparks in your life