Are Women Really Supporting One Another In the Skilled Trades?

Did you know that 1 in 5 women prefer to work with men over other women? We dove deep into this curious statistic and explored the challenges of women supporting women in spaces where we're still breaking ground.

Our guest Bogi is a committed automotive industry advocate, dealer-trained BMW and ASE master certified technician, and a fierce proponent for inspiring women to pursue opportunities within the automotive and skilled trade industries. Her desire to do more for promoting, empowering and increasing the number of women in the trades, combined with her strong belief in advocacy, inspired her to create Girl Gang Garage.

Bogi is also a prominent speaker and educator, leveraging her 20 years of industry experience, passion, and genuine love for cars. She has consulted and taught thousands across the country, focusing on creating a culture within a business that creates space for diversity, increases the professionalism and respect for the automotive industry and emphasizes that by creating a culture where female employees and customers are valued and respected, everyone wins. Bogi has been teaching basic car care classes and workshops for 20 years, blending her knowledge and passion for empowering women to create a unique teaching style that uses automotive knowledge to empower women in their personal and professional lives. She has been featured in countless news articles and stories, been awarded Phoenix 35 under 35, 40 under 40, Women in Auto Care Female Shop Owner of the Year and many other prestigious awards. Additionally Bogi has been the host of the TV show All Girls Garage on Motortrend TV for 12 years, and is the creator and host of the With Her Two Hands podcast for 3.5 years.

Connect with our guest Bogi's Links: IG: @bogisgarage
Connect with us: @sparkylifeoflia

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Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00:00) - As I always like to say, everything comes with its own set of BS. It's just a matter of which BS are you willing to put up with?

Speaker 2 (00:00:05) - Welcome to the Sparky Life podcast. I'm your host, Lia Lamela, and here we create the spark in our lives. Join me on this electrical journey where I highlight skilled trade tales and construction career opportunities with those I've met along the way. Thank you for joining. For Trade Tales continued in this episode of the Sparky Live. I speak with a real icon in our industry. We discuss women and women relationships because being in the skilled trades and the lack of women in the environment, a lot of questions surround why exactly that is. And I came across the stats from Pew research.org. The study was done that 1 in 5 women prefer to work with a man as opposed to another woman. Now that's 18%. 18% of women prefer to work with a man as opposed to a woman. Now, if women are really supporting other women, especially in male dominated spaces, why wouldn't more women want to work with more women? I find this all very interesting.

Speaker 2 (00:01:24) - I hope you are as excited to uncover the answers to these types of questions as much as I am. Please enjoy the episode today as we discuss women in the skilled trades and women women relationships. Our guest today, host of the TV show All Girls Garage on MotorTrend TV and creator and host of the podcast with her to Hans Bogey, is an automotive advocate, dealer trained BMWs and AC master technician certified. She is a powerful force, inspiring women to pursue automotive and skilled trade careers. Welcome with me my fellow Jersey girl. Bougie.

Speaker 1 (00:02:21) - Hey, how are you?

Speaker 2 (00:02:23) - I'm very well, thank you. How are you doing?

Speaker 1 (00:02:26) - I am fantastic. Well, mostly fantastic, mostly fantastic. I'm getting over a cold, so I like. I sound very congested and like I'm going to try not to die during this session.

Speaker 2 (00:02:39) - No. No dying. Please ante on the dying.

Speaker 1 (00:02:42) - I'm gonna try. I'm gonna try not to do. That would be a real bummer. Way to to go out. Um.

Speaker 2 (00:02:48) - I am recovering from a cold as well. It seems to be that time of year.

Speaker 1 (00:02:55) - It is.

Speaker 2 (00:02:56) - Thank you so much for coming on the Sparky life.

Speaker 1 (00:03:00) - Thank you for having me.

Speaker 2 (00:03:02) - Yes, it was a privilege to be on your podcast with her two hands, and I'm thrilled to have you here. I don't think enough of our community really understands what you're bringing to the table for us. Oh, we don't have female role models in skilled trades on the level that you are.

Speaker 1 (00:03:27) - Thank you.

Speaker 2 (00:03:28) - You're success. You're almost over two decades of experience in your field. The way that you conduct yourself and how much you care about supporting other women is something that really touches my heart. I want to get into when you were going through your journey, did you have any female mentors?

Speaker 1 (00:03:53) - Oh, no. Um, first of all, you're like, you made me well up a little bit. Um, I'm not crying. My eyes are just leaking. Thank you for your for your beautiful words.

Speaker 1 (00:04:05) - My gosh. Um. Thank you, thank you. Uh, no, I did not. In fact, it was it was a good like five years, maybe four years before I, like, even knew that, like, another woman like me existed. Um, it was, you know, it was back in the day when there was no social media, so that wasn't like, a thing. And, um, my mom found an article about a woman in Pennsylvania who was a mechanic. Um, and talk about a trailblazer because she's been in it for, like, 35 years. 40 years, even, maybe. And, uh, and so my mom clipped this article and was like, look, it's another female mechanic. Oh, I was like, oh my gosh, there's someone else like me. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's not it's not common. Um, I definitely didn't have any any women to look up to or. Um. Yeah. There was no. Back then there was no visibility back then.

Speaker 1 (00:05:02) - Social media has made it a lot easier and harder in lots of ways too, right? There's pros and cons to it, right?

Speaker 2 (00:05:08) - Exactly. Definitely pros and cons. I would say the majority of social media I'm putting air quotes here. Influencers in the skilled trades are people who are apprentices who are just walking into the the trades. You don't see, especially female representation of really a master in their skilled trades like you. It's just not out there.

Speaker 1 (00:05:39) - It's hard, right? Because partly there's not. There weren't that many women in it back in the day. So there aren't that many women now who have been in it for 20, 30 years. And those that have been are generally too busy to take photos of themselves while they're working. Right, right. You know, or they're of an age range where, like, social media isn't really like the thing that they want to do. Um, I'm kind of like, like forced into it in a sense because of the TV show. But if it weren't for the TV show, like, I don't know that I would be on social media like I'm of that generation that is like, you know, it doesn't come naturally to me, right?

Speaker 2 (00:06:24) - I totally get it.

Speaker 2 (00:06:26) - I am on the same page. I know we touched on this when we were on your show, and it's something that I've been marinating and sitting with for quite some time. So there's a lot of questions when I speak to women in the field about, you know, have things really changed? You know, are we really welcome? Is the door just open? And I started to think about women and women relationships. Okay. I think it's unique and rare to see a woman like you truly support another female in the skilled trades. And what I mean truly support. Let me define that here. I mean, you will take the time to mentor them, to kind of take them under your wing, walk them through how you became so successful, share in your success. And I'm not talking the five second reels of I worked really hard and, uh, I believed in myself and all this, you know, very like, duh, type of stuff like that. That's not that's not telling somebody how to sell a successful business of over, what, 13 years you had that you're very first business.

Speaker 2 (00:07:50) - I mean, that's not explaining how to negotiate a financial contract within our community. These are huge, big, big deals. If you want to excel to the levels that I hear people talk about, you know, I hear the word financial freedom thrown around all, all day. Sure. So why am I seeing so few females really support one another? Am I not looking hard enough?

Speaker 1 (00:08:21) - You know, I think there's a lot of layers. There's a lot of layers to this question. This could be our entire episode. I think there are pockets of it. I mean, we we see, you know, I'm part of a group called Women in Auto Care, and there's a mentorship program that they have within there. And the women in, in that group and in that organization have formed like some incredible bonds and really support one another and do a lot of reaching back down to, to pull others up. And so I think it does happen. It is out there, I think often in, in the trenches, in the trades, one of the challenges is that, you know, a there's this stereotype that women don't support one another.

Speaker 1 (00:09:07) - And so I think women are almost taught not to support one another, which is an interesting thing. And then as a minority within the trades, there's been this misnomer or this belief that the pie is only so big. And and if I get my piece of it then then you can't have yours. And if you get your piece, then I'm getting less. And that's just B.S., because the pie is infinitely large and we can all eat as much as we want. Um, but there's whether we should or not is another story. But. Yes. Um. Eat the whole dang pie. You're good. Um, there's this competition that kind of gets baked in. And often women are used to being the only and for better or for worse, they've gotten used to it. And sometimes there's this. You know, I find there's like two types of women in the trades. There's the women who have been alone on site or in their shop for years and years, and then another woman comes in and either they're like, oh my gosh, instant sister.

Speaker 1 (00:10:13) - We're like besties because we get it. And we've been there. And then there's the other group of women who were like.

Speaker 3 (00:10:19) - Bitch.

Speaker 1 (00:10:21) - This is my space. These are my boys, right? And it goes one of two ways. And it's really a shame. But there's a lot a lot of layers to it. There really is. And then there's add all the layers of we have a society as a whole that isn't designed to support people being vulnerable and sharing the challenges and instead being kind of, um, caustically positive or it's like everything's great. Nothing was hard. I just worked hard and I and I believed in myself and everything was wonderful, great. Kind of like you alluded to because, like, that's our society likes that. Our society doesn't reward people saying, look like it was. I cried in the bathroom a lot. Right? And I didn't always want to get back up. And sometimes there were months when I didn't want to get back up. And I did because I had to pay my dang bills.

Speaker 1 (00:11:17) - And then I fell back in love with it because it's a roller coaster. Sometimes it's a ride sometimes, and it isn't always a I pulled myself up by the bootstraps. Sometimes it's I just freakin needed to. And through that, the the hard feelings and the yucky waned. And I was able to to fall back in love, you know?

Speaker 2 (00:11:38) - Yes, yes.

Speaker 1 (00:11:39) - Lots of layers.

Speaker 2 (00:11:41) - You bring up a lot of great points here. I feel that often. I don't know what you want to call it. Media society tells lots of lies about career paths and the route to success and what that looks like. And I feel that I've seen a pattern of first it was go to college, go to college. If you get a college degree, you're guaranteed six figures. That is how to be successful. Go to college. We all found out. That's fucking bullshit. Okay, that didn't work for a lot of us. It didn't work to many of us, it didn't work. Then it was go on social media.

Speaker 2 (00:12:24) - You can make so much money on social media. It's so easy. Do dropshipping, do this, do that. And that is complete bullshit as well. I and now I feel like it's finally happening. Now I'm finally seeing social media clips on the skilled trades. If you want to be successful, go into the skilled trades. And now I would say that's right. That's 100% on with the exception of. It's not like I'm going to be a plumber and so I'm going to start an apprenticeship and I'm gonna the money's going to flow like that's not what happens at all, especially when you are beginning. Yeah. Also we have many challenges which many of us discuss about the environment. And I'm circling back to. Women and women relationships. I can't help but wonder if more women really supported other women I'm not talking about. I support you. You're fabulous. Oh my God, I'm talking about, like, really sharing your information. Talking about. Hey, I know this electrician, Jan. She is fabulous.

Speaker 2 (00:13:46) - I highly, highly recommend her. Or let me tell you how I started. Let me walk you through what I did. You want my number? Call me. We'll talk it out. Yeah. If I were to see that. And a key, a key here. Leaders, women that have entered leadership roles, business owners primarily hiring women. And the reason I say this is because the more and more I think about it, the more and more I'm like, huh, that would solve a lot of the industry issues that we talk about. Why do you think women who are in power positions don't really, I mean, I. I'm not saying every woman I know, a woman, Jennifer Markwell, she is incredible. She runs platinum wealth and she has an all female team. So they're out there?

Speaker 1 (00:14:46) - Definitely, but.

Speaker 2 (00:14:48) - Not a lot.

Speaker 1 (00:14:50) - I think it depends on where their leaders. Right. Because if they are leaders in their own organization or they are high up enough that they feel insulated from backlash, then yes, I do think often women will do that, will reach down and hire other women.

Speaker 1 (00:15:09) - I know I made a point of doing it. I know a lot of women in the trades who who want to do that. They want to own a business where they hire all women. Sometimes they struggle with actually finding women when they set out to do that. But that's another story. Um, but, um, but I think, you know, maybe somebody who's just middle management, like, they just got promoted into a hiring type of position. There's a fearfulness there that if they hire other women, they will be seen as showing favoritism to women, which is interesting because men are never afraid of like being perceived as showing favoritism to men when they hire men. But it's part of like what comes along with being a minority within an industry is that I think there is baked in a little bit of that fearfulness that if I start making it a point to hire women, even if they are equally capable, even if it's like an apprentice position and like neither has any any skill set, hire the woman, hire the man that they're that they're going to be judged as showing favoritism or being sexist, which is so interesting to me.

Speaker 1 (00:16:12) - Um, if they hire women or seek out women. So I think that may be part of it.

Speaker 2 (00:16:18) - I agree, I could see how that would be something that would come to the forefront. I wonder, what do you think it's going to take to have women have better relationships with women?

Speaker 1 (00:16:35) - Who, uh, for it to become trendy and cool. I don't know. I love you, I fucking love you. I can't see.

Speaker 2 (00:16:46) - Jersey girls know where it's at.

Speaker 1 (00:16:50) - I don't know, I mean, maybe that's the cynical answer to it. Um, but, um, I don't know. I think in industries and jobs and cultures where, where it is more balanced male to female. Where there is more diversity across the board, then we see more genuine support for people and for each other, regardless of gender or sexual orientation or color of skin or age or whatever. The less diverse a community, the less diverse a job or a workplace, the harder it is to have genuine connections with people and try to support one another.

Speaker 1 (00:17:32) - Because of all of that, that stuff that gets baked in, the favoritism and the fear of favoritism and the fear of this and the fear of that and all of the stuff that that kind of gets baked in when you're in a minority situation. So I think it's going to take an evening, a leveling of the playing field and more diversity within our workplaces. And so like, what's what's it going to take for that to happen? And I, I. Like. That's the hard question, my cynical brain, because I'm like 5050. I'm like cynic, optimist, and I'm constantly at war with myself. So like, my inner cynic is like nothing is changing. It's never going to get any better. This is always going to suck. But then my optimist is like, no, stop. When you step away and you look at the forest, instead of getting so stuck on seeing the trees right when you can really step back and look at it, the needle is moving, things are changing, the scales are shifting.

Speaker 1 (00:18:30) - The problem is, is that change happens generationally. And so that means it happens slowly and it happens in conversations. It happens one on one. It happens because of podcasts like yours, like mine, like people having difficult conversations in their workplace that it happens one person at a time and it happens generationally. And so I don't know that you and I are going to see it, but hopefully our kids will, or maybe our grandkids will, and maybe we'll see it change a little bit. But I, I think about and this is both the thing that horrifies me. It keeps me up at night and also gives me hope is like the women who fought for women's suffrage, right? The right to vote, first of all, was was just barely over 100 years ago. Right. That we got. Right. So yes. Yes. So, you know, it's not that long ago and and they didn't live to see it happen. So the original women fighting for women's suffrage did not live to see women get the right to vote.

Speaker 1 (00:19:36) - And that is it horrifies me because I think, gosh, I'm committing my life. I've committed my life to making a change within this industry and within our society. And like, I don't know. I don't know that it's ever going to happen, or I don't feel like it's ever going to happen. I don't know that I'm ever going to see it. And that's hard. That's challenging. But it also gives me hope because I know that, like it is happening. It's just slow and it will happen. It's just a matter of time. If I don't know if that answers your question, but.

Speaker 2 (00:20:11) - No, I definitely think that answers the question. I think you're probably right. And when I think about it, I think that the best. Parts of what I'll see are the cracks, the beginnings. Like women like you. Like you are a woman who truly supports other women. And so I see it. It's there. I guess I'm just impatient in the sense of come on, ladies, let's all get on board.

Speaker 1 (00:20:47) - I, I feel you, I feel you, I get I get impatient as well. I definitely feel you. It's hard, it's hard. Um, and and it's, it's it's hard to keep giving when it sometimes backfires. Yeah. Right. Because that's that's the thing. We live in a society that doesn't always reward constantly being like being vulnerable and giving and sharing and talking about hard things. And sometimes it backfires and sometimes it just doesn't go over all that well. And so and you get burnt a lot and it's hard to keep doing that. It's hard to I mean, it's no different than anything else, right? Like it's it's hard to keep being vulnerable to falling in love when you've been burnt by love, it's hard to, you know, it's all of those things. So it's not an easy thing to do. It takes a choice. It's a constant, constant choice and decision to do that.

Speaker 2 (00:21:42) - A lot of strength or stubbornness.

Speaker 1 (00:21:46) - That's true too. I don't know. I don't I don't necessarily consider myself all that strong.

Speaker 1 (00:21:55) - I'm just really stubborn. I'm just really, really stubborn, and I. I don't like, um. I don't like not finishing something I started. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:22:05) - Stubborn, strong semantics.

Speaker 1 (00:22:08) - I guess. I guess so, I guess so.

Speaker 2 (00:22:12) - Now, anyone who wants to enter the automotive fields, talk about what it took. Give me some true breakdown specifics of how you gained the success that you have today.

Speaker 1 (00:22:29) - So we have to break it out into kind of two separate things, right? Because there's my success as an auto mechanic and in the trades. And then there's my success kind of as a influencer. Quote air quotes again. Right. As a advocate, as an advocate, as person on TV, as a person doing like those are all kind of and then even like my teaching and my, my coaching work that I do like, that's a whole nother set. Like, that's like four different careers, right? So how I got my success in each of those is somewhat different. But also this circles back to your kind of point about, you know, go to college, you'll make six figures or go be an influencer.

Speaker 1 (00:23:09) - It'll be easy. They said it'll be fun. They said. Right. Um, and even the trades. Right. Because a lot of the trade schools got in trouble for like, you know, come to our trade school, become a mechanic or become a welder, and you'll be making six figures. The reality is, is no matter what you do. It takes commitment and hard work and it doesn't happen right off the bat. It doesn't happen, you know, overnight. It takes sometimes years and a lot of sacrifice. Yeah. And every career path, every job, every way to quote unquote, get rich or be successful or have the good life, whatever you want to call it. Right? Right. They all come with their challenges. It's just as I always like to say, everything comes with its own set of BS. It's just a matter of which BS are you willing to put up with? Like, which are you okay with? And so kind of knowing that going in like everybody likes to look at the overnight success like, oh, look at this person who suddenly just blew up on social media and has 10 million followers, but you don't see the fact that they would like, just go in at it for years.

Speaker 1 (00:24:13) - Right? Or you see, you know, people saw me on TV and it's like, oh, overnight success. Suddenly I got on TV. Who the heck was I? I've been mechanic for, you know, 12 years prior. And, you know, I own my own business. And I've been grinding and putting in the work. Right. So know that no matter what it is you choose, no matter what part of you know what I do that you want to do, whether it's the TV, whether it's the social media, whether it's the teaching or the mechanics or being in the trades, it's like it's going to take hard work. But on a logistic front. So the mechanic part, since this is a trade show, let's talk about the trades piece of it. I from a logistics standpoint, I um, knew nothing about cars when I got into being a mechanic. I knew I liked cars, but I knew nothing about them. And I decided to take high school auto shop.

Speaker 1 (00:25:02) - I was only the second girl in my high school auto shop program. I was made fun of a lot. I was teased a lot until they got used to me. Then the boys became like my big brothers. Um, but um, so did that. And then I went off to college because I didn't really know that automotive was a career path that I could do. Yeah, I wasn't exposed to it. Nobody came to our high school auto shop and said, like, this is what comes next and this is what you can do. And so I didn't know, and my high school was super limited. We didn't have like welding. And I, you know, I hear these young kids going to these crazy high schools now where they're like I did took aviation in high school. And I'm like, why, yes.

Speaker 2 (00:25:42) - Yes or CAD in high school. Oh my God. Yeah, that.

Speaker 1 (00:25:46) - Wasn't a thing. Um, like we had a woodworking class. We had a mechanic class, which was literally like a room with one lift and like three toolboxes and like, that was it, like we worked on lawnmower engines and, like, you know, just barely did stuff.

Speaker 1 (00:26:01) - My my teacher was great. I love him. He did the best with what he had. But so I went off to college because that's what I was supposed to do. Um, I decided I wanted to become a mechanic instead of go to law school. So that was like, all right. So from the time I decided that I wanted to become a mechanic, I knew that I had kind of two options. And this is people go one of two ways. Either go get a job and work your way up from the ground floor, or go to school and get training. I felt like for whether I was right or wrong, I felt like as a woman, I was not going to be able to get a job. And just work my way up. So I felt like I had to go to school and do that. So I researched schools. I went to Universal Technical Institute and was just kind of thrown in and learned. I was 22, 23 years old at that time because I had graduated college ready.

Speaker 1 (00:26:54) - I was going to school with a bunch of 19 year olds, and I was like, the only girl with a bunch of 19 year old boys. It was really fun. Uh. It was interesting. Um, and then started out in the, in the field. So I did that. I went to BMW program, which was really helpful because that was like an advanced training. So I know you focus more on the electrical side and kind of construction trades. So people may not be familiar, but um, we go to like UTI is like a technical general technical school where I got my like my high school level education of cars, basically. Right. And then I went to the BMW program, which is a graduate program. It's like going to college for that brand. That's when I really started to understand, and that accelerated me, I think. I think both paths are successful and are doable. One takes longer. Um, if you start out on the ground floor and you just work your way up, you will get there eventually, but you're going to have to work a whole lot harder to get there and and find the right mentors and be in the right place, because I'd gone to school and then graduate school, it like put me in at a, like a slightly higher level.

Speaker 1 (00:28:03) - I still had to work my butt off, but it gave me like that, that foot in the door. And then what? What led to my success from that? A lot of really hard work, a lot of tears, um, a lot of days of wanting to give up. And probably, if I'm being really honest, I felt I had something to prove. Mhm. And when you feel you have something to prove, you have something different that motivates you and keeps you going every day whether you want to or not. So I was kind of on this mission to prove something. Yeah. I could blab for hours about this, but.

Speaker 2 (00:28:42) - I am shocked that your thought process regarding school was extremely similar to mine in the construct of skilled trades. Now, I don't know if this is more like female driven or if men experienced the same thing, but to me I didn't have the backing of experience. I didn't feel confident that I would be seen for my talent and promoted through the ranks.

Speaker 2 (00:29:16) - So the only way to get a leg up was to be certified, licensed and anything and everything I could get my hands on, knowing that many are not. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (00:29:27) - Yeah, no, 100%. That was my mindset and that's why I chose BMW, right? Like, people think I chose BMW because it was prestigious and that was part of it, right? Or that I was in love with BMW right now. I mean, I fell in love with BMW, you know, I drank the Kool-Aid. I like I love BMW, right. But, um, but I chose BMW because I felt like it would carry more weight when I walked in and said, I'm a master BMW technician than if I said I am a certified Honda Tech or a or a Kia Tech. Right. Like that was in my mind, was have as much as much prestige, have as much certifications, have as much, you know, anything that you can. Because yes, as a woman, I knew that there was a really good chance that people weren't going to take me seriously.

Speaker 1 (00:30:16) - And I don't think men necessarily do that. I definitely don't think they do that. I think they think about, okay, schooling might bring me in at a higher level, but I think there's more opportunities available to men to to be brought up by a mentor, to just be brought up. And I think there are some women who have encouraged, encountered that and had great success with that and have worked their way up with, you know, great mentors and great bosses and great places. But for the most part, we need that leg up to be taken seriously because most folks still see a woman come apply for the job. And they're like. Really?

Speaker 2 (00:30:56) - How much you.

Speaker 1 (00:30:57) - Are you really serious? Yeah, either. How much do you know? I don't want to take the risk. It's a liability or. I don't think you're really serious about this. Right? Um. And so what better way to prove I'm serious about it than to have put in all of this work into my education and my training and my certifications.

Speaker 2 (00:31:16) - Yes. I was speaking to a man in his approaching 80s. Extremely successful. At one point in his career, he was making 50,000 a month. And this is like back then, you know what I'm saying? Okay. And we had a really fantastic conversation. He told me that he primarily hired women because it made him more money in so many ways. The women had something to prove, so they worked harder and he could pay them less.

Speaker 4 (00:31:50) - Oof.

Speaker 2 (00:31:52) - Yeah, I adore him. I think these are the conversations we really need to have now. Is that right or wrong? Well, hey, you know what? If I'm a business owner and I'm going to benefit by paying someone less money, and I know I can, because that's the standard. Guess what? I'm going to do it.

Speaker 4 (00:32:10) - Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:32:11) - I mean.

Speaker 1 (00:32:12) - That part hurts my heart a little bit, but.

Speaker 4 (00:32:14) - Um, of.

Speaker 2 (00:32:15) - Course, of course, of course. Right. Because we know is that what we want to see other humans do? Of course not.

Speaker 1 (00:32:23) - But you're right. Most employers are going to do that.

Speaker 2 (00:32:25) - Yeah, we want people to do the right thing, but at the same time they need to do what's best for them also. Right. Like, you know, there's this balance of, well, is it first good for me? And then how can I give to others? So in one way, he was giving in the sense that.

Speaker 4 (00:32:43) - Women.

Speaker 2 (00:32:44) - Were hired very easily with his company.

Speaker 4 (00:32:47) - Right.

Speaker 2 (00:32:48) - And then the other way, he was taking advantage of the fact that he could pay them less.

Speaker 1 (00:32:53) - They were willing to work. Yeah. If they were going to work twice as hard.

Speaker 2 (00:32:56) - Twice as hard, and get paid significantly less. And then on top of that, he got government kickbacks.

Speaker 1 (00:33:04) - For hiring.

Speaker 2 (00:33:05) - Women, checking that box.

Speaker 4 (00:33:06) - Right.

Speaker 1 (00:33:07) - So what? Why do more people not do that? Why is it so hard to get places to give women jobs?

Speaker 2 (00:33:14) - But I think that having conversations, not judging each other for for things, but investigating and learning about why people make decisions that they do and what's really happening behind the scenes is what's going to create the most change.

Speaker 1 (00:33:32) - Yeah, absolutely. It's interesting. I hear people say a lot like, oh, I think actually women make better mechanics or better electricians or better welders or better whatever. Like I hear that from the there are more men who are coming around to the idea that women have a place in the trades, and sometimes they go so far as to say, I think that they make better x, y, z. I'm like, I don't think that we make better anything. Inherently. I think we have something to prove. Yes. I think we feel like if we don't do twice as well as the rest of our colleagues, that we're going to be judged for being crap like that. If we're not, we're not amazing, than it is going to be assumed that we're awful. And so we we work really, really freaking hard and we want it right. I think that's the biggest thing is, like, the women in these trades aren't here because we accidentally fell into them, right? Women in the trades are here because we chose it, because we wanted it.

Speaker 1 (00:34:30) - And there are a lot of men who are in the trades because their dad was in the trades. They grew up in the trades, they didn't know what else they wanted to do. And so they just kind of did what they knew how to do. And that's fine. There's nothing wrong with that. There's zero judgment there. But there isn't that same like, oh, that drive, that grit as when you have a person who says, this is what I want. And even though the world is telling me I can't have it, I shouldn't have it, I don't belong, I'm not welcome. I want it so bad that I'm willing to put up with all of the crap to keep going after it anyway. Like, you can't. You can't replicate that kind of drive. Like what comes out of that, right?

Speaker 2 (00:35:12) - Exactly, exactly. I am already running out of time. I knew this was going to happen. I knew I would have it. It's like it's too good. It's too good.

Speaker 2 (00:35:23) - Will you please leave us with what tool is in your tool belt? What's something that has helped you reach the level that you're at?

Speaker 1 (00:35:34) - I think probably the biggest tool in my toolkit in and I think in anybody's is your phone list.

Speaker 2 (00:35:42) - Oh. Mhm.

Speaker 1 (00:35:44) - It's who you know.

Speaker 4 (00:35:45) - And.

Speaker 1 (00:35:46) - And not burning bridges with anybody and being able to reach out to people and like who you have and like what I like to call like my personal board. You know, the people who I call when I have difficult decisions or the people I call when I need a pick me up, and I need someone to remind me that I'm capable and that I can do this. The people who know the things that I don't know, the people who are experts at in different areas of the trades than I am, like that is your best tool, knowing and having amazing resources and people to reach out to and cultivating that list.

Speaker 2 (00:36:23) - I love it.

Speaker 5 (00:36:23) - I love it, I love it.

Speaker 2 (00:36:26) - I wish I had more time.

Speaker 2 (00:36:28) - Thank you. Thank you so much for coming on the Sparky life. You are a pleasure as always.

Speaker 1 (00:36:33) - Thank you. This was so much fun. Keep doing what you're doing. This is amazing. Um, you're a rock star and you're in your own right. You were absolutely doing phenomenal things, so keep it up.

Speaker 2 (00:36:43) - Thank you.

Speaker 6 (00:36:45) - Thank you for joining us.

Speaker 2 (00:36:47) - If you felt a.

Speaker 6 (00:36:48) - Spark in today's episode, I invite you to write a review. I'd love to hear what lit you up, take what resonates with you, and if you'd like to hear more of the Sparky life, please subscribe, like, follow and share. Until next time, create the sparks in your life.